tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post7228220477884649271..comments2024-03-24T10:24:57.931+00:00Comments on Leoxicon: Colligation and a bottom-up approach to grammarLeohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16077987567636970527noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-23571641909050827082016-07-16T12:36:46.374+01:002016-07-16T12:36:46.374+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447550912257112248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-39705011624401814932016-06-25T11:45:37.827+01:002016-06-25T11:45:37.827+01:00Choosing the right punctuation marks to use is a l...Choosing the right punctuation marks to use is a less difficult thing to do than knowing the exact place and time to use it. Some can get confused as to where to place it exactly. If you are one of those who gets confused with the correct placement of punctuation marks, then the online punctuation checker can be such a big help to you. <a href="http://www.sentencecorrectiononline.com" rel="nofollow">english sentence correction</a>Irfan sarkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06244021301583490727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-34215868478953558412016-06-06T13:10:31.968+01:002016-06-06T13:10:31.968+01:00Doing an online grammar check proves to be more pr...Doing an online grammar check proves to be more practical is some ways than installing a software for checking grammar. Aside from the fact that some software for checking grammar are not freeware or paid programs, some of it are also not user friendly. Also, some people chose to do online grammar check than getting the software and install it because some of the software has bugs in it and do not actually work very well. See more <a href="http://www.grammarcheckeronline.org/online-punctuation-checker-for-you/" rel="nofollow">free punctuation checker</a><br />Anynomoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03734618773270694888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-23250684037441677682016-05-02T10:20:30.878+01:002016-05-02T10:20:30.878+01:00Interesting Book. however I have sentence fragment...Interesting Book. however I have <a href="http://www.sentencechecker.org/tag/sentence-fragment-corrector-online/" rel="nofollow">sentence fragment checker online</a> for students and author who find difficulty to make sentences.aliyaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184256288293330921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-33821044301612875192015-12-23T14:31:13.643+00:002015-12-23T14:31:13.643+00:00Reaching forward to those of approaches sometimes ...Reaching forward to those of approaches sometimes becomes so tough and it almost seems to be hard to get yourself, but with some emphasized ideas you may be able to get yourself to some instant. <a href="http://www.paraphrasetool.biz/effective-online-paraphrase-generator/" rel="nofollow">paraphrasing tool generator</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-62329065934685169022015-11-12T11:07:34.542+00:002015-11-12T11:07:34.542+00:00Some very little but technical elements of learnin...Some very little but technical elements of learning with words, phrases and outlines to improve your grammar will be a very good step indeed. <a href="http://www.grammercheck.biz/check-grammer-with-our-service/" rel="nofollow">check grammer</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-43757519389860940602015-11-12T08:54:22.086+00:002015-11-12T08:54:22.086+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Robert Cruzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15052392178226257742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-21264153573549692015-10-20T20:45:04.478+01:002015-10-20T20:45:04.478+01:00Hi Rupert,
When I your name popped up I thought, ...Hi Rupert,<br /><br />When I your name popped up I thought, "What a coincidence!" But having read your comment I see that it is not. <br /><br />I think the saying you refer to has inspired many linguists (M. Halliday comes to mind), corpus researchers (such as Sinclair) and ELT methodologists (M. Lewis included). There's even a term "Neo-Firthian" to describe the school of thought that they espouse. And while we're on the topic, are you familiar with Hania Kryzsewska and Paul Davies's <i>The Company Words Keep"</i>? ;)<br /><br />Honoured to have you here.<br /><br />P.S. I am sorry but Blogger doesn't let me correct other people's entries but not to worry...Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16077987567636970527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-44262373949276951152015-10-20T20:15:44.291+01:002015-10-20T20:15:44.291+01:00Hi Kamila,
Scott Thornbury's Natural Grammar ...Hi Kamila,<br /><br />Scott Thornbury's <i>Natural Grammar</i> is an excellent resource for this kind of grammar work - on the word level. Despite what Geoff says, I wholly subscribe to this approach to practising "grammar" .<br /><br /><strong>Geoff</strong>, "it depends" mentioned above is one such pattern. Or, for example, "I've never been to..." for the Present Perfect.<br /><br />L Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16077987567636970527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-14148705084806519072015-10-20T20:04:40.151+01:002015-10-20T20:04:40.151+01:00Hi Geoff,
Thank you for your comment. I'll tr...Hi Geoff,<br /><br />Thank you for your comment. I'll try to answer some of your questions. I did acknowledge that Hugh may have taken liberty with the term so I am not going to dwell on that. The mistakes such as <i>*it's depend</i> or <i>I'm agree</i> are micro-grammatical in the sense that they are not caused by a failure to apply the rules of the Present Simple (although many teachers may see them as such) but by not knowing that "depend" or "agree" are verbs in English (whereas in L1 similar concepts may be realised by means of adjectives). If you ask me, "it depends" should be taught as a chunk and not broken down in the first place. That's why "grammar" work should start with teaching "it depends" and "I agree" (i.e. teaching grammatical patterns and not just meanings) rather than teaching "to depend" (+ definition / L1 translation) and "to agree" (+ definition / L1 translation) and then hoping that students will combine the new words with the correct grammar rules that we've spent so much time on practising and somehow get it right. Hence, it's better to focus on word grammar and not "big grammar issues" because most teachers are already doing enough of the latter.<br /><br />Naturally, there are hundreds or thousands of patterns - Willis's <i>Rules, Patterns and Words</i> may offer an insight into how many but don't quote me on that.<br /><br />Hope it answers some of your questions.<br /><br />L<br /><br />Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16077987567636970527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-68285545819439573792015-10-19T21:16:34.984+01:002015-10-19T21:16:34.984+01:00er... influential, tingle, and various lower case...er... influential, tingle, and various lower case 'i's' need to be corrected. <br />Rupert Firthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810054999693798023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-34492498811848160812015-10-19T21:13:43.560+01:002015-10-19T21:13:43.560+01:00Yes, J R Firth is credited with really introducing...Yes, J R Firth is credited with really introducing the terms collocation and colligation, although I think collocation was first used by someone else in the 1930s. I came to TEFL teaching quite late in life (after I had retired from school teaching) only to discover that my grandfather (yes, it is he, John Rupert Firth) had pioneered some useful ideas in linguistics. In fact, he died in 1960, and it is his students who studied under him at SOAS in the 40s and 50s (such as Frank Palmer) who really spread some of his perspectives. He wrote indluential papers, but never the magnum opus that was expected and hoped for. It always gives me a tiangle when i see his name. Reading this article i see more and more how his saying "You shall know a word by the company it keeps" really is very helpful.Rupert Firthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810054999693798023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-51603020884691332722015-10-19T10:05:11.674+01:002015-10-19T10:05:11.674+01:00So students who were exposed to e.g. the present s...So students who were exposed to e.g. the present simple and continuous years ago and still used the tenses wrongly get it right when you teach them various structures "around" a word. That's remarkable. Can you tell us what the various structures were which you taught, and which word you taught them "around"? <br /><br />Geoff Jordan Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-64076636358042955312015-10-19T07:19:14.090+01:002015-10-19T07:19:14.090+01:00It makes perfect sense to me. I've had student...It makes perfect sense to me. I've had students who were exposed to e.g. Present Simple x Cont years ago and still use the tenses wrongly. But if I teach them various structures 'around' a word, they get it right. I use a dictionary or Scott Thornbury's Natural Grammar as reference. Thanks for confirming what I've been doing out of ituition.kamilaofpraguenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5759462792103754770.post-58677834094491959292015-10-18T17:53:20.924+01:002015-10-18T17:53:20.924+01:00According to this report, Dellar extends the term ...According to this report, Dellar extends the term colligation to include cases where “a failure to follow the pattern associated with a word results in error”. <br /><br />Geoff Jordan<br />* What does “a failure to follow the pattern associated with a word” mean? <br />* What is “the pattern associated with a word”? <br />* Could you give me some idea of how many such patterns there are, to the nearest hundred thousand? <br />* Are there any guidelines (I refrain ofcourse from asking for rules) that might help us teach kearners how to “follow” patterns associated with words? <br /><br />You suggest, following Dellar, that the error “It is depend of my girlfriend” is not a grammar error, but rather a “micro-grammatical problems” caused by a lack of awareness of how the word “depend” interacts with grammar. “For example, students may have learnt the meaning of “depend” but have not factored in the pattern attached to the word. As a result, they speak L2 in L1 bringing in primings (a term coined by Hoey) from L1”. I wonder how many teachers, if presented with this alternative analysis of the error, would think that it’s better, clearer, more pedagogically appealing than seeing it as a grammar error. <br /> <br />* In the example, what pattern attached to the word has the student not “factored in”? <br />* What primings from L1 explain “It is depend”? <br />* What is the advantage of this analysis? The lexical chunk “It depends on ...” is a frequent one, but what’s the use of this “extension” of colligation? <br /><br />You repeat Dellar’s assertions about the efficacy of this alternative analysis but you offer no explanation. <br />* Why is this analysis better? <br />* How would you teach learners to “follow” the “patterns associated with words”. <br /><br />Dellar says that traditional pedagogical grammar “places (undue) emphasis on sentence-level grammar”, and that believing that sentence-level grammar is the cause of the mistakes listed is “to miss the point”. <br /><br />* What point is missed? <br />* Why should grammar work start with exploring patterns associated with words? <br />* Why is “a more bottom-up approach to grammar” better? <br />* Why is it better to explore word grammar or colligations than to focus on 'big' grammar issues (e.g. tenses)? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com